I'm sure your sick of this now, but Further GPL issues/questions.

From ender@vision.net.au Tue Feb 22 14:02:01 2000
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 19:41:42 +1100
From: "J.Brown [Ender/Amigo]" 
To: johnc@idsoftware.com
Cc: qwf@quakesrc.org, knghtbrd@debian.org, ender@quakesrc.org,
     quakelives@hotmail.com
Subject: I'm sure your sick of this now, but Further GPL issues/questions.

Hi.

Well, I guess your probably sick of hearing about this right now, but I've just been talking to Slade (of QuakeLives). I'm on a rival group, developing a secure encrypted version of QL, which explains my aggressiveness in the log below :) But Joseph Carter <knghtbrd@debian.org> insisted I mail this log to you, so here it is. I'm sure we would all REALLY appretiate a .plan update about this, expecially if Slade's allegation he's exempt from the GPL is true.. Read below to find out what I'm talking about :)

== Ender, QuakeWorld Forever & the Quake Standards Group

[19:04] <Endy> heh, we have intercooperation going here.

[19:04] <Endy> Also, QWF is part of the Quake Engine Developement Board.

[19:04] <Slade> whose dat?

[19:04] <Endy> 'tis a standards discussion group, directed by the QSG.

[19:04] <Slade> ah

[19:04] <Endy> 'tis formed by Tyrann, Topaz, Pheonix (of the QER), Maddes (QIP), a few QWF guys, a few QF guys, the D3DQuake guy.. the AmigaQuake guys..

[19:04] <Slade> on telefrgged?

[19:04] <Endy> You know. Everyone who is anyone type thing. :P

[19:04] <Slade> k

[19:05] <Slade> never heard it called that before

[19:05] <Endy> well, it's moving to http://www.quakesrc.org soon. :P

[19:05] <Endy> No, this is a new thing.

[19:05] <Endy> the Quake Standards Group just set it up

[19:05] <Slade> k

[19:05] <Endy> you might be invited too, when you start releasing full source. :P

[19:06] <Slade> why would i wanna do that?

[19:06] <Endy> why would you want to be invited, or why would you want to release full source? :P

[19:06] <Slade> yes

[19:07] <Endy> ..

[19:07] <Endy> yes too..? :P

[19:07] <Slade> ;)

[19:08] <Slade> both

[19:08] <Endy> the last because otherwise jc's going to get very pissed off. and if you don't do the last you won't be invited.

[19:08] <Slade> jc's not pissed at me

[19:09] <Endy> and you want to be invited because otherwise you'll miss out in all the amazing stuff we are going to come out with :P

[19:09] <Slade> you'll GPL it

[19:09] <Slade> and i'll take it

[19:09] <Slade> ;)

[19:09] * Endy quotes you on that :P

[19:09] <Slade> j/k

[19:09] <Slade> actually the thing you have to remember

[19:10] <Slade> is you dont know if i'm under the GPL license or not

[19:10] <Endy> eh?

[19:10] <Slade> am i under the GPL license?

[19:10] <Slade> can you prove this?

[19:11] <Endy> QL has to be under the GPL license.

[19:11] <Slade> or are you just assuming

[19:11] <Slade> no they dont

[19:12] <Endy> Because it's derived from the QuakeWorld source.

[19:12] <Slade> right

[19:13] <Slade> the quakeworld source is released under about 5 diffrent licenses

[19:13] <Slade> 1 of which is GPL

[19:13] <Endy> the source you are working from is licensed under the GPL.

[19:14] <Slade> how do you know?

[19:14] <Endy> because it can't be licensed under anything else. The source release was licensed, formally, as carmack constantly states, under the GPL.

[19:14] <Endy> Superceding all possible former licenses.

[19:15] <Slade> no

[19:15] <Slade> not at all

[19:15] <Slade> the GPL is just a license

[19:15] <Slade> it can be overwritten by any other license that the licenser wants

[19:15] <Slade> thats the LAW

[19:16] <Endy> THe licenser has not given you any other license tho :P

[19:16] <Slade> how do you know?

[19:17] <Endy> because this mail from carmack here says so.

[19:17] <Slade> no

[19:18] <Slade> 1 as of that date it says that

[19:18] <Slade> and 2

[19:19] <Slade> Id software isnt the only licenser of QuakeWorld

[19:19] <Slade> please remember that

[19:19] * Slade smirks, hmm. deeper then you thought

[19:19] <Slade> perhaps we should continue this conversation more after you've done more research :)

[19:19] <Endy> heh.

[19:19] <Endy> well.. when carmack says something like:

[19:20] <Endy> "I went and looked at exactly what

[19:20] <Endy> QuakeLives is doing with regards to the gpl.

[19:20] <Endy> It sure sounds as though QL is bound by the gpl

[19:21] <Slade> as far as he knows

[19:21] <Slade> carmack doesnt know everything

[19:21] <Slade> he assumed

[19:21] <Slade> or assumes

[19:22] <Slade> just you you and everyone else

[19:22] <Endy> I see.

[19:22] <Slade> theres an old saying about people who assume

[19:22] <Endy> Well, Let me do my reseach, then we will continue.

[19:22] * Endy shakes your hand.

[Log Closed: 19:23, Thu 03/02/2000]

From quakelives@hotmail.com Tue Feb 22 14:02:06 2000
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 05:32:30 EST
From: Quake Lives 
To: ender@vision.net.au
Cc: johnc@idsoftware.com, qwf@quakesrc.org, knghtbrd@debian.org,
     ender@quakesrc.org
Subject: Re: I'm sure your sick of this now, but Further GPL issues/questions.

I like Aesop's Fables:

Fable - Don't eat the yellow snow.
Moral - Yellow snow will make you very unhappy if you eat it.

Fable - The Ass And The Lapdog
Moral - Adults are not to act like children.

-- Slade

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

[19:04]	<Endy>	heh, we have intercooperation going here.
[19:04]	<Endy>	Also, QWF is part of the Quake Engine Developement Board.
[19:04]	<Slade>	whose dat?
[19:04]	<Endy>	'tis a standards discussion group, directed by the QSG.
[19:04]	<Slade>	ah
[19:04]	<Endy>	'tis formed by Tyrann, Topaz, Pheonix (of the QER), Maddes (QIP), a few QWF guys, a few QF guys, the D3DQuake guy.. the AmigaQuake guys..
[19:04]	<Slade>	on telefrgged?
[19:04]	<Endy>	You know. Everyone who is anyone type thing. :P
[19:04]	<Slade>	k
[19:05]	<Slade>	never heard it called that before
[19:05]	<Endy>	well, it's moving to http://www.quakesrc.org soon. :P
[19:05]	<Endy>	No, this is a new thing.
[19:05]	<Endy>	the Quake Standards Group just set it up
[19:05]	<Slade>	k
[19:05]	<Endy>	you might be invited too, when you start releasing full source. :P
[19:06]	<Slade>	why would i wanna do that?
[19:06]	<Endy>	why would you want to be invited, or why would you want to release full source? :P
[19:06]	<Slade>	yes
[19:07]	<Endy>	..
[19:07]	<Endy>	yes too..? :P
[19:07]	<Slade>	;)
[19:08]	<Slade>	both
[19:08]	<Endy>	the last because otherwise jc's going to get very pissed off. and if you don't do the last you won't be invited.
[19:08]	<Slade>	jc's not pissed at me
[19:09]	<Endy>	and you want to be invited because otherwise you'll miss out in all the amazing stuff we are going to come out with :P
[19:09]	<Slade>	you'll GPL it
[19:09]	<Slade>	and i'll take it
[19:09]	<Slade>	;)
[19:09]	*	Endy quotes you on that :P
[19:09]	<Slade>	j/k
[19:09]	<Slade>	actually the thing you have to remember
[19:10]	<Slade>	is you dont know if i'm under the GPL license or not
[19:10]	<Endy>	eh?
[19:10]	<Slade>	am i under the GPL license?
[19:10]	<Slade>	can you prove this?
[19:11]	<Endy>	QL has to be under the GPL license.
[19:11]	<Slade>	or are you just assuming
[19:11]	<Slade>	no they dont
[19:12]	<Endy>	Because it's derived from the QuakeWorld source.
[19:12]	<Slade>	right
[19:13]	<Slade>	the quakeworld source is released under about 5 diffrent licenses
[19:13]	<Slade>	1 of which is GPL
[19:13]	<Endy>	the source you are working from is licensed under the GPL.
[19:14]	<Slade>	how do you know?
[19:14]	<Endy>	because it can't be licensed under anything else. The source release was licensed, formally, as carmack constantly states, under the GPL.
[19:14]	<Endy>	Superceding all possible former licenses.
[19:15]	<Slade>	no
[19:15]	<Slade>	not at all
[19:15]	<Slade>	the GPL is just a license
[19:15]	<Slade>	it can be overwritten by any other license that the licenser wants
[19:15]	<Slade>	thats the LAW
[19:16]	<Endy>	THe licenser has not given you any other license tho :P
[19:16]	<Slade>	how do you know?
[19:17]	<Endy>	because this mail from carmack here says so.
[19:17]	<Slade>	no
[19:18]	<Slade>	1 as of that date it says that
[19:18]	<Slade>	and 2
[19:19]	<Slade>	Id software isnt the only licenser of QuakeWorld
[19:19]	<Slade>	please remember that
[19:19]	*	Slade smirks, hmm. deeper then you thought
[19:19]	<Slade>	perhaps we should continue this conversation more after you've done more research :)
[19:19]	<Endy>	heh.
[19:19]	<Endy>	well.. when carmack says something like:
[19:20]	<Endy>	"I went and looked at exactly what
[19:20]	<Endy>	QuakeLives is doing with regards to the gpl.
[19:20]	<Endy>	It sure sounds as though QL is bound by the gpl
[19:21]	<Slade>	as far as he knows
[19:21]	<Slade>	carmack doesnt know everything
[19:21]	<Slade>	he assumed
[19:21]	<Slade>	or assumes
[19:22]	<Slade>	just you you and everyone else
[19:22]	<Endy>	I see.
[19:22]	<Slade>	theres an old saying about people who assume
[19:22]	<Endy>	Well, Let me do my reseach, then we will continue.
[19:22]	*	Endy shakes your hand.