Re: I'm sure your sick of this now, but Further GPL issues/questions.

From kev@zip.com.au Tue Feb 22 14:04:14 2000
Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 21:39:11 +1100 (EST)
From: Kevin Pulo 
To: Quake Lives 
Subject: Re: I'm sure your sick of this now, but Further GPL issues/questions.

On Thu, 3 Feb 2000, Quake Lives wrote:

> I like Aesop's Fables:
>
> Fable - Don't eat the yellow snow.
> Moral - Yellow snow will make you very unhappy if you eat it.
>
> Fable - The Ass And The Lapdog
> Moral - Adults are not to act like children.

I don't see the relevance. *shrug* I'm not fussed.

Can you answer the question directly, once and for all - under which license have you obtained QuakeWorld, and from whom?

If it is not the GPL or some other freely available license, then can we receive a copy of the text of the license? If not, can you tell us what the license says about redistribution, permission to redistribute, and similar issues?

Bye 4 now,
Kev.

From quakelives@hotmail.com Tue Feb 22 14:05:17 2000
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 14:57:58 EST
From: Quake Lives 
To: kev@zip.com.au
Subject: Re: I'm sure your sick of this now, but Further GPL issues/questions.

>
> I don't see the relevance. *shrug* I'm not fussed.

Look harder, read between the lines. Or better yet, read through the lines

From kev@zip.com.au Tue Feb 22 14:05:29 2000
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 08:41:33 +1100 (EST)
From: Kevin Pulo 
To: Quake Lives 
Subject: Re: I'm sure your sick of this now, but Further GPL issues/questions.

On Thu, 3 Feb 2000, Quake Lives wrote:

> > I don't see the relevance. *shrug* I'm not fussed.
>
> Look harder, read between the lines. Or better yet, read through
> the lines

Answer the question directly, please. I'll repeat it.

Under which license have you obtained QuakeWorld, and from whom?

If you do not state unequivocally that you are not using the GPL, then we are all perfectly valid in assuming that you are using the GPL, since it is the license for the public release of QW.

Please answer the question directly.

Bye 4 now,
Kev.

From quakelives@hotmail.com Tue Feb 22 14:06:33 2000
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 17:43:42 EST
From: Quake Lives 
To: kev@zip.com.au
Subject: Re: I'm sure your sick of this now, but Further GPL issues/questions.

If your intentions were for things other then your own selfish purposes, maybe I would take the time out to talk to you.

In the mean time I'm busy signing NDA's

-- Slade

[ Entire previous message quoted. ]

From kev@zip.com.au Tue Feb 22 14:06:53 2000
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 10:36:08 +1100 (EST)
From: Kevin Pulo 
To: Quake Lives 
Subject: Re: I'm sure your sick of this now, but Further GPL issues/questions.

On Thu, 3 Feb 2000, Quake Lives wrote:

> If your intentions were for things other then your own selfish
> purposes, maybe I would take the time out to talk to you.

What gain, selfish or otherwise, can I get from your answering the question? I assure you, I'm not in this for personal gain. As I'm sure you're aware, all I care about is that the GPL is upheld, and I do this because of my beliefs.

You keep being harrassed about the GPL, but if it doesn't apply to you, then you should say so (in as many words, not between the lines), and provide some proof. Maybe then we'll leave you alone.

> In the mean time I'm busy signing NDA's

Can you confirm directly that you have obtained (or are obtaining) a license for QuakeWorld under NDA?

Bye 4 now,
Kev.

From quakelives@hotmail.com Tue Feb 22 14:07:31 2000
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 19:51:34 EST
From: Quake Lives 
To: kev@zip.com.au
Subject: Re: I'm sure your sick of this now, but Further GPL issues/questions.

Hey DevKev,

I really like your attitude approaching this. You show traits that I really admire in you, which are oh so uncommon. So I will take the time to properlly answer you. However, knowing that you run straight to the other guys I have to watch what I say.

First off, its none of your buisness, you guys use my code(taken from the QF source), I do not use yours, biting the hand that feeds you is not such a good idea.

Second, because of how number 1 is, you have no legal recourse against me. If you wish to discuss legalities, make sure you're in a position to do this first.

Finally, if you REALLY want to get into legalties(I dont), I have more of a right to sue you guys then you do me. (One word: Harrassment)

So lets both get back to our projects, you do your thing, I'll do mine, and we can coexist in peace.

-- Slade

From kev@zip.com.au Tue Feb 22 14:07:46 2000
Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 13:24:05 +1100 (EST)
From: Kevin Pulo 
To: Quake Lives 
Subject: Re: I'm sure your sick of this now, but Further GPL issues/questions.

On Thu, 3 Feb 2000, Quake Lives wrote:

Slade,

> I really like your attitude approaching this. You show traits that I really
> admire in you, which are oh so uncommon. So I will take the time to
> properlly answer you.

Thank you.

> However, knowing that you run straight to the other guys I have to
> watch what I say.

You know me well.

> First off, its none of your buisness,

This is perhaps not quite true... We've released our code for QW under the GPL, and you have recently released a QW derivative without source. Since there is a chance that some of our code is contained within this release, the license for QL 2.53 is of concern to us.

> you guys use my code (taken from the QF source),

Exactly which code would this be? If you don't know which files/routines, who's your source on this? I'm not aware of QWF containing any QL code at all (though of course I'm double checking this with my teammates).

Maybe I'm just too used to the GPL. The spirit of the GPL says that you can use and share code, as long as you don't stop other people from using or sharing said code.

If we were to use QL code, this would only be a problem if that QL code wasn't covered by the GPL. Unfortunately, you will neither confirm nor deny if QL is covered by the GPL.

> I do not use yours,

Unfortunately, we can't confirm this, as you won't release the QL 2.53 source code.

> biting the hand that feeds you is not such a good idea.

I resent the insinuation that QWF "feeds" off QL. We are in no way dependant upon QL, and consider ourselves to be doing quite well, thank you very much.

Also, I'm not looking for advice; if I'm stupid enough to bite any feeding hands, that's my problem.

> Second, because of how number 1 is, you have no legal recourse
> against me.

We established a week or more ago that I had no legal recourse against you. I'm just Joe Average concerned about the situation.

> If you wish to discuss legalities, make sure you're in a position
> to do this first.

Discussing legalities is different to taking legal action. As you've correctly said before, we can talk about the legalities and it barely means a thing if iD doesn't want to try to sue you (or whatever).

As above, I happen to be concerned about the legal issues which I view to be at stake.

> Finally, if you REALLY want to get into legalties(I dont), I have
> more of a right to sue you guys then you do me. (One word:
> Harrassment)

Perhaps; I'm not familiar with harrassment laws (least of all in the USA or Canada). However I personally don't fear anything, as I have always been polite, assertive and restrained.

> So lets both get back to our projects, you do your thing, I'll do
> mine, and we can coexist in peace.

There's nothing wrong with this in theory. The problem arises, of course, when our paths cross and disagreements arise. I have no problem with "live and let live", except when my quality of life is or would be degraded as a result.

Bye 4 now,
Kev.

From quakelives@hotmail.com Tue Feb 22 14:08:11 2000
Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 21:57:45 EST
From: Quake Lives 
To: kev@zip.com.au
Subject: Re: I'm sure your sick of this now, but Further GPL issues/questions.

Well put. See you on IRC sometime.

-- Slade

[ Entire previous message quoted. ]